Was the Beast 11 or not when he was cursed?

A common argument along fans is weather or not the Beast was 10/11 or not when he was cursed. People assume that because between two lines… one being at the beginning of the movie in the prologue “rose will bloom until his 21st year” and a line from Lumuire in the song “Be Our Guest”. The line is: “10 years we been rusting/needing so much more then dusting…”. So people think the year Beast and Belle meet is Beast’s 21st year (if he was a human), and that he was used 10 years prior 21-10=11.

There’s little evidence to show he was a child- the scene shows him as a adult, or at least as a teenager in both the stained glass (prologue, and looking not much different from himself with Belle in the end stained glass) and in the portrait he slashed -the one which helps Belle to recognize him at the end.

I know of three child monarchs (all UK mind you)-who had portraits done of them and they all still look child like to me compared to the fictional Beast as a human’s portrait.

Richard II (whom was just one year younger then the Beast was if the Beast was cursed at 11)
Richard_II_King_of_England

Henry VI (baby when Henry 5 died but was crowned not to long latter )
Henry VI

and Edward VI (inherited the throne at 9 died at 15-16)

French monarch Louis XIV as a child (inheirted the throne at age 5)

Those all show very childlike faces. compared to the fictional Beast’s portrait which shows an more adult-looking face

And I can’t really trust anything people said that the script writer/animator said -(ie: Beast was 11). Because someone on the “Disney team” for Frozen I tried to claim that Elsa and Anna’s parents were also Tarzan’s parents as a joke but people took it as cannon.

There’s is the original script from I guess the first edition of the movie with the songs in it (it’s when “Be Our Guest” was suppose to be for Maurice, not Belle). I’m going to write the whole scenes:

We meet the 11 year old boy as he is getting dressed and fussed over by a slew of servants. But the boy is making it impossible for them. He is sick and tired of getting all dressed up…He’s sick and tired of being polite… he’s sick and tired of boring old ceremonies His two regents tried to explain a Wise Woman who was respected across the land was going to pay him a visit. The Wise Woman used to give advice to his parents and some say she had magical powers. “I don’t care! Its my castle I will only do what I want!” The prince pushes the servants away “Just try and stop me” The boy runs into the courtyard where he collides with what looks to be an old beggar woman. She’s coming up the walkway with a basket of flowers. He knocks he to the ground, the couriers gasp and the servants run to help her to her feet. The old woman levels her gaze at the boy and said “I’m waiting for an apology” The boy seemed surprise and he laughs “You can wait all day” She said “So you’re not going to apologize?” He crosses his arms stubornly “I don’t have too” Old woman smiles patiently “I’m giving you one more chance” The boy’s temper flares “Why should I say I’m sorry to an old beggar woman? I don’t care about you!” and he angrily kicks her basket and it causes the flowers to scatter in the dirt. Fierce power emanates from her eyes as she looks into his soul “I can see that…you care for nothing…you love nothing. but yourself” "Why Should I? The boy answers arrogantly “You’re no better then a beast” The Wise woman raises her arms and she glows with power and magic. The boy gasps his eyes goes wide and flees back into the castle

He flees past the regents who apologize on the boy’s behalf “Forgive him, he’s just a child” “A child in need of a lesson” she answers “Please we can’t let you harm him” “I warn you not to interfer” Heedless of her warnings the two regents block her way. She waves her arms and they’re turned into a candelabra and a mantle clock She continues into the castle transforming anyone and all who get in her way.

The Frighten boy runs through the castle looking over his shoulder. He dashes into the safety of his own room shoves furniture against the door and hides in the corner. Moments later the Wise woman appears in front of him and he cowers behind a chair. “Since you’re no better then a beast you deserve to look like one” She waves her arms and the boy is transformed into a hideous creature half-boy, half beast. “And you will remain a prisoner in this enchanted place with no human company” “This rose will bloom until your 21st birthday and if you can learn to love and earn their love in return by the time the rose withers …then the spell will be broken. If not you’re doomed to remain a beast for all time”, when the Wise Woman was gone the boy-beast raced to the highest tower and sees her disappear into the Mist… “I’m sorry” he cried

But if that’s true ^ wouldn’t that technically mean that little part of Belle’s age (17) from a 1989 script is also true?

And then Chip is much younger then the beast- so it either means that chip was only a baby when the curse happened (and why in the world, curse a baby?!-maybe because there would be no humans-beside the boy-beast in the castle) or he was born as a tea cup and I don’t even want to know how he was “delivered” in that case-the beast doing it from Mrs. Pott’s lid? Is that how he was Chipped?. Or Mrs. Potts had some fun times when in Pot form and somehow got and deliver Chip somehow.

And even in the sequel/midquel-thing in the flashback scene in the flashback- of when Beast was cursed, the Prince looks to be 14-16 not 10/11. Not to mention why have for the human prince before the curse voice be the same actor as the modern-day human prince?

I just assumed the 10 years meant even before the curse that they didn’t get to entertain very often because… Because the entire lyrics of that part of the song is: “10 years we been rusting/needing so much more then dusting/needing exercise, a chance to use our skills.”

.I certainly wouldn’t want to go to a party, ball, dinner event that a spoiled childish 11 year old or a spoiled childish 16-18 year old was hosting and you would literally have to walk on eggshells around him not to get him mad at you for any little reason.

I certainly wouldn’t want to go to a party, ball, dinner event weather it was a spoiled childish 11 year old or a spoiled childish 16-18 year old was hosting… would you?

He’s a prince. If he threw a party, everyone would be obligated to attend regardless of how capricious he was simply because everyone would be there.

I provided canonical evidence. He was stated to be 11 in the script, by the producers, and in other canonical media. I already gave you the canonical explanation for Chip: he didn’t age during the curse. Your entire counterargument to those points is “but I don’t want to believe it”. In which case, what’s even the point of debating this?

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the script isn’t cannon. it’s an old script just like the “old 1989 script” of Belle’s age being 17. And the Prince wasn’t 11 year old when he was cursed in the final version of the movie prologue.

And I can’t trust official Disney media spin-off material because they sometimes are not cannon. I mean people say Adam is the Beast-Prince’s name but it comes from a game which isn’t cannon.

with his personality with Belle before she scolds him, I don’t think anyone would come to visit even before the curse happened. I certainty wouldn’t want to be a guest of his with his spoiled brat behaviour

If you can’t trust it, then that’s your problem.

I have a headcanon for the Harry Potter series: Merope Gaunt and Tom Riddle did not in fact get married and there was no love potion. The story disagrees with me and so does the fascist author. I don’t trust the author because she’s fascist and makes really stupid comments on her own stories (the poop thing which is gross and historically inaccurate), and I don’t trust the source material because there are a lot of inconsistencies (e.g. if they got married, there should have been a banns printed in the paper; love potion ingredients are expensive and some are imported, so she wouldn’t be able to afford or gather them).

Does that mean there’s a debate as to what happened?

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You do know there’s such a thing as eloping? And even in the 1912-1920-there’s a parish called Gretna Green which was a popular location for eloping. So I think that if they eloped…that there wouldn’t have been banns in the newspaper. But we already know that in the book verse at least that Tom Riddle Sr. liked another girl to the point Morfin Gaunt… made fun of it to his sister.

And I think the Gaunts might had a garden that Merope was suppose to take care of. I mean she was already made to be the cook, and maid. So maybe the ingredients of the love potion were already in the house or in a hidden garden we can’t see in the saquor of the house.

It’s either a love potion was used… or an unforgiveable curse was used. The Imperious curse was used to get Riddle Sr to go with Merope when he already was with another girl entirely.

But I don’t think they ever got married either. They just lived together until Merope got pregnant with Future!Voldemort and stopped doing X to Riddle Sr

One of the ingredients is moonstone, which isn’t found in the UK and is not a plant, so it can’t be grown in a garden. You also don’t need ingredients for a love potion if you’re expected to marry your own siblings.

As for the Imperius, I think it would be entirely unnecessary. If his fiancee broke up with him and he wanted to try being a big man in a bigger city, he would naturally go to London. And if he could get someone with him to be an unpaid housekeeper/cook/girlfriend, why wouldn’t he take her with him, use her, and then dump her when she’s no longer useful (e.g. heavily pregnant and no longer sexy and able to cook and clean)?

But the point is, the only reason you believe that’s the case is because the book and the author state that. I believe them to be wrong. Does that mean it’s not canon?

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Considering he’d been living as a beast for 10 years when Belle came along and the rose was starting to die I imagine that he probably was becoming more beast like. After all her father was the first human he’d seen in 10 years. Why would he have manners when all he was doing was talking to pots and furniture? People who live by themselves are set in their ways.

And whether you like it or not the author or the script writer in this case has the final say in what did or didn’t happen.

You’ve been great about not being unreasonable for a while now. So remember that everyone has different opinions and yes you can say that you don’t believe he was 11 the point is that that was their intention.

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How does the fairytale look once you remove the Disney fluff?

I don’t know about his age but the Fables comic gave the curse an interesting twist: the extent to which the curse was “lifted” was proportionate to how happy Beauty was with him at any given moment. If they had an argument he would revert to Beast form until she calmed down and forgave him.

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and problem is there’s too many authors for Beauty and the Beast. Since they had been trying to make Beauty and the Beast since the 1930s/1940s. and like I said… I can’t really trust what Linda (or even Glen Keene) says because someone on the Frozen I team claimed at one point…as a joke that Elsa and Anna’s parents were also were Tarzan’s parents…and that’s a bunch of yahoo.

And Chip is much younger then 10 years old. So either he was just a baby when Beast was cursed. And again the only reason to curse a baby whom hadn’t done anything yet. The only reason for that is maybe mercy- because otherwise, it would have been a beast raising the only human in the castle. Or Mrs. Potts was pregnant when curse and the Beast “delivered” Chip from her lid and that’s how he got broken? Or she slept with someone in pot form, got pregnant and delivered Chip via the lid.

But if the Beast is 11 when he’s cursed… why curse an 11 year old? He’s still learning. That’s a mean thing to do. and if that’s the curse going through puberty in beast form would be awful I think. And I thought that Snow White (whom is 7 at the time of her “death” in Grimm Version) going through puberty in a coffin was awful.

But then as I said to Mom a couple of times that even 7 year old’s were treated like mini- adults anytime before the 20th century. Like in Medvial times a secondary son of a noble would go to another noble’s house at the age of 7 and become a page to the noble Lord of the manor. And at the age of 10-12 he becomes a squire.

Some noble girls (as young as 7) were sent to other noble’s castles to learn (from the Lady of the house) how to run an estate, and how to embroider and maybe some logic strategy-since you could never knew if your husband might be killed in battle and you have to deal with threats to the area if you have no heirs or very young heirs (Henry VI, Richard II, Edward VI, or Louis XIV) or even if he’s not killed -if he was like away taking part in the Crusaders-you’re basically in change of the manor and land (I think the only example I can think of this is Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine)

I hear some people wish that Belle asked if the human!Beast weren’t mind growing a mustache.

So you’re saying that because one director made a joke - which he clearly stated was a joke - then nothing else that any Disney movie producers said is valid? Even though the statement was made before Chris Buck made that joke? Does that mean you trusted it before the joke, but stopped trusting everything because one person made a joke?

And again, I’ve told you the canonical explanation for Chip. You’re ignoring me.

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Some entitled witches are just beastly…

Tags: Parody, Castle, Hotel, Entitled, Jerk

I was just a young prince when this happened. Although royal, my family wasn’t in line to inherit the throne. We had all the expected finery but it really belonged to the royal family in the capital. In reality that meant we were cash poor and we made a small sum offering hospitality to travellers which is where our story starts, with a knock at the door…

Me: (Opening door) Please come in!

Karen: I am but a poor woman, please give me a room for the night!

Me: We have two rooms available, a forest view room Double for five coins, or a garden view Single for three.

Karen: I am but a poor woman, GIVE me a room!

Me: The Single is three coins, but I can authorise a discounted rate for two coins.

Karen: I will give you this perfect rose.

The woman pulls a rose out from under her cloak. Whilst pretty it has been cut so won’t last the week, or even the night. Also we have servants to pay, food to buy. “Three loaves of bread please Mr Baker!” “Two petals please!” I don’t think so. I stifle a laugh.

Me: I am very sorry but we only accept coin of the realm.

Karen: I AM BUT A POOR WOMAN YOU LITTLE SNOT! GET ME YOUR MANAGER!

Me: I am currently the highest ranked member of staff in the building, but I will fetch the Manager for you.

I ring the bell for the Servants’ Quarters and quickly have my deputy, Mrs Potts, by my side.

Karen: (Eyes welling up with crocodile tears) I am but a poor woman who is looking for a room for the night. I will pay you for your kindness with this rose

Mrs Potts looks at me with an eyebrow raised. I shrugged my shoulders.

Me: She wouldn’t listen to me, this guest wanted to speak to the manager. I offered her the Single room for two coins.

Karen: …but I am just a poor woman!

Mrs Potts: No coins, no room. We cannot pay our suppliers in rose petals!

Karen: THIS IS TERRIBLE SERVICE! I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU! I’M LEAVING YOU A 1 STAR REVIEW IN EVERY TOWN NEARBY! NO TAVERN WILL EVER RECOMMEND YOUR CASTLE AGAIN!

Me: Madam, we are a popular establishment known for our excellent hospitality at a competitive price point. You are causing quite the disturbance and I would like you to leave.

Karen: (To Mrs Potts) GIVE ME MY ROOM AND COMPENSATION FOR THIS BRAT’S INSOLENCE!

Mrs Potts: COGSWORTH! LUMIERE!

Two smartly dressed gentlemen came running out of the shadows.

Me: Please escort this lady off the property. She is no longer welcome here!

Cogsworth reaches the Karen first but she starts rising into the air and lightning flashes. He steps back as the lightning flashes again and the poor woman’s clothes turn into a glorious robe.

Karen: YOU CAN’T MAKE ME LEAVE! I WILL CURSE YOU AND COMPLAIN TO THE TOWN BUSINESS GUILD!

Me: All of this over two coins? That robe alone is worth more than a hundred!

Karen: YOU… YOU… YOU LITTLE BEAST!

Green lightning flashed and Karen disappeared, dropping the rose and leaving me waving a furry paw in her general direction. Furry paw?

…Bugger.

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Lovely spoof.

But as far as start of Civilization Mesopotamia?) -that hospitably played a big part in society I mean look at Abrham’s and Sara’s acceptance of the unusual men who show up who announce that the very elderly Sara was going to have a kid by the next time they show up?

And there’s the Greek myth of Zeus and Hermes who disguise themselves like beggars- and go door to door on this one city, Lystra…and the only people who shared food and shelter with them was an elderly couple. The town was (supposedly) humiliated to the point because of the myth because when two people who were preaching Jesus’ teachings ended up in the same place -the people there thought they’re Zeus/Hermes back for a round 2.

And we could possible argue that Athena changing Odysseus near the end of the Oddesy into a beggar -was a test of hospitability for the Penelope’s so-called suitors who believe Odysseus is dead because it been 20 years since he left.

I do personally believe that the enchantress is the overall evil one in this story. But yes, hospitality is still a big part of cultures across the world. Scotland even has this enshrined in law where, if you knock on someone’s door and ask for the use of the Convenience, they have to let you in. I don’t know if this has ever been tested though. Not that I am advocating that we all form a long line and knock on @AlienToasterRepairs front door demanding to pee…

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You might want to give it 10 minutes…

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Interestingly enough I was curious since it had been a while since I watched and I started watching it again. But in the live action version the prince was indeed older. In Be Our Guest they changed “for 10 years we’ve been rusting” to “For too long we’ve been rusting.”

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the same in the Broadway version. But apparently- I found a reference to the fact the first actor to play the Beast-Prince in the Broadway version was in his 40s at the time. And neither is the line “21st year”.

The originally song in the Broadway did have 10 years in but I guess they removed in when the First Beast-Prince actor was in his 40s.

My bigger question about the movie is why Belle decides to take her father home. Shortly after the dance scene, Belle looks through the enchanted mirror and sees her father in trouble in the woods. So she runs off to help him. That’s fine so far. But then she says she wants to take him home and thus leave the Beast and everyone else. This leads to the climax of the film where the villagers decide to mob the Beast.

Why doesn’t she take her father back with her to the castle? She sees that he’s probably sick, and the castle would most likely have at least one physician on hand to help. Even if it doesn’t, the servants have more resources (firewood to keep the rooms warm, a nice hot meal, enough people to watch Maurice constantly). Plus, by bringing him to the castle instead of leaving entirely, she keeps her promise to the Beast and doesn’t have to leave the guy she’s falling for.

Seems like they should have made a better justification for her to leave.

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Maybe the Belle took Maurice back to the village because that way Maurice would be more comfortable there then he would be at the Beast’s castle? Especially the last time he (Maurice) saw the beast he was 'murderous creature" or something along those lines. And briefly after Maruice wakes up he’s still afraid of the Beast

And technically Belle having to go “home” for some reason or other happens in nearly all versions of the story except for I believe the Greek Myth which could be the original of the Beauty and the Beast story (Psyche and Eros). … but in that version…it’s the sisters who still make Psyche suspicious of her “husband” whom she hasn’t seen at that point (he only visits after dark).

But in most it’s because of her being home sick. And in those versions she’s only suppose to stay a week and then return to the Beast. But in those version someone (sisters-novels, suitor-1940s French Version, or the 1980s Faire Tale Theatre Version which is very close to the 1940’s French Version, or in a novel I read recently it was her father. And I’m still grossed out by that novel that the Belle’s father attempted suicide to prevent Belle from returning to the “monstrous Beast”)