Solutions for policing of Racalized communities in Society ideas?

There’s so much overpolicing in other words systemic racism in society of the racalized communities (African, Carrbiean, Middle Eastern, Indengious, and people from places like India and other Asian countries). I want to talk about some ideas for solutions even if we can’t do much about them in real life. I might mostly use Toronto/Ontario or some other Canadian provinces/cities mostly for this topic but you’re welcome to mention your own ideas.

I’m going to write some overpolcing aka systemic racism problems in society. I might not have them in any particular order but I’m going to try my best

1. systemic racsim in healthcare system from before they’re born till the grave

To expanded on this there been two cases recently in the news where two indengious women in the news one in Quebec and another in Brithish Columbia both went to the hosptial to give birth and in both cases they’re basically treated like they’re seeking drugs. In one woman’s case, after the child’s birth that the nurses basically treated the child as a piece of decor (got left on a shelf in the nurse’s staff room or something?) and it resulted in the child dying. Because apperently a lot (but not all) racalized communities are poor, it means we (as society) have to pay more in the long run to take care of them then if we had something like Basic Univerisal income. During Covid vaccnines roll out its this community which needs the vaccine the most (because a lot of them are our customer service representives in places like resturant and stores) vs the communities which needed it less got more of it (the richer and sometimes whiter neigbourhoods like Doug Ford’s).

Another example I thought of some years ago that a young racalized man, who was coming out of their family’s mosque service tried to be a “Good Samaritan” and prevent someone else from being shoot and ended up being shot himself. Because of a combonation of the (former) paramedics think he was faking it, and they took him to the hosptial which was futher away…it resulted in this youing man dying.

  1. the potential of children being taken away by the social workers due to the lack of understanding of other other cultures staples.

Both the 1960s Scoop and also of more recently cases where it happened to some Carrbbiean families- because all the family had in the pantry was “rice, beans and something else”. Not counting the time where a boy from India got his roti taken away because the school thought it “wasn’t healthy”.

  1. The lack of want of eductation.

i’m not sure how excatly I can explain this. But basically in some cases racalized students don’t “see” themselves in society (as teachers, sciencets, doctors, etc ) so they don’t see any point in going to school or getting an education-espically if they might be bothered by teachers or other adminstrators both in the school or in the school board.

4.Polce stopping racalized community members wether they’re walking or driving.

Basically If you’re are racalized lawyer you can forget about driving a fancy car because 99% of the time if a cop stops you they’re probably will think you (the racalized person) probably stole it. This also applys in some stores as well…that some employees might be told to follow racalized communitiy members around, because the managers (if not the employees themselves) assume they might steal something.

5, Police believing that racalized men are bigger and more threatening than a white man in the same problem

If a racalized man is in a mental health crsis and police are called instead of talking calmly to the person in crisis (like you’re supposed to do)that the police basically act like a TV SWAT team and come barging in with guns and Tasers blarring and yelling “DROP YOUR WEAPON!” and if they don’t the police shoot the poor guy!

  1. Male youth joing gangs.

This might or might not be a result of overpolcing. Between the “society doesn’t care about us”, peer pressure and the closing of youth centres in poorer places in Toronto and that it might be hard to get to the next nearest youth centre if the parents are already have a hard time in getting food on the table or a roof over their heads. So that male youth join gangs. So far I haven’t heard anything about girls joing gangs.

7 Police officers try to hide stuff or pin the blame on the racalized victim (who might or might not be alive) for whatever happened.

The other year an indengious women (Regis Korchinski-Paquet) died and the police claimed she was trying to “jump off” the balocny onto a neighbour’s balocny but pictures show that contary to that- the neighbour’s balocny was covered in nets which would have prevented the woman from doing such thing. Between that and the 2nd autposty that the woman’s family had done that a certian neck bone, the hryoid bone missing.

In another case on Boxing Day the other year a young racalized man was beaten so badly by an off-duty Toronto Cop and his civilain brother that he, (the young man), had to have one of his eyes removed. That and also due ot the fact of the off-duty cop and his brother’s father also being a Toronto cop and interferring in the invesagation , the SIU didn’t learn about the incident until the man’s lawyer contacted them.

During the trial last year -the police officer and his brother tired to claim 2 things. The First thing they claimed is that the young man, had robbed their father’s truck (in reaility the truck had been robbed hours before) The second thing they claimed, was a BIG pipe which was found on the scene had been in the man’s pants and that he (the man) hit them (the cop/the brother) with it as opposed to the highly visble evidence of that they hit HIM with the said pipe.

  1. Racalized people loosing potential high-ranking jobs due to so called “Criminal relatives”.

In two different stories racalized women lost their high ranking jobs at either the Metrolinix company or as I think it was as Security at Pearson Airport due to so-called “Criminal” relatives and it didn’t even matter in the empoyers’ minds that the said women didn’t even talk to the so-called criminal relative had hasn’t for years.

There might be some other examples but I can’t think of anything at the moment.

Potential Solutions:
First solution is to provide Basic Univerisal Income so that rest of society doesn’t have to pay in the long run for the poor racalized communities’ health care… which is about second to the the health care given to the disabled community.

Second soultion is try to teach social workers about other cultures’ stapes (Eatting habbits and otherswise) so that if they don’t see anything other then rice/beans (or no fridge in Indgeous’ homes like doing the 60s’ scoop) that doesn’t mean the family are neglecting the children.

Third solution try to get more of the Racalized community be in jobs like teaching, doctors, scients, etc. And racalized students might be more interested in getting an eduction to get those jobs.

Don’t have a solution really for the 4th, 5th, 7th and 8th problems. I do have a solution for the 6th problem

The 6th solution would be to reopen, or rebuilt community centres in the poor areas of citiies like Toronto, so that the youths could go to these centres to make friends instead of joining gangs.

Put your ideas done below in the thread below and please be civil to each other!

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I think the two issues are separate: overpolicing and getting into gangs. Even if gangs didn’t exist, the overpolicing would be a problem.

Authority figures often tend to be harder on minority kids than on majority kids. There was a study not too long ago where they put eyetrackers on teachers and had them watch some preschoolers (ages 4-5) playing: a white boy, a white girl, a Black boy, and a Black girl. Their goal was to spot misbehavior, though there was none in the video. All teachers, including ones who were Black themselves, spent the most time watching the two Black kids. They were most likely, at 42%, to report misbehavior from the Black boy, though the Black girl was the least reported. This article also discusses other things, like how Black boys are more likely to be suspended or expelled for things that their white counterparts can get away with.

Preschoolers are typically not in gangs, but they’re still subject to overpolicing.

I’ve mentioned before that I think training kids in empathy and emotional competence is a potential solution. And it’s a good idea in general. One key point is that you would teach kids to recognize emotions in others. Once you get them in the habit of looking at the humanity of others, it becomes much harder for them to dehumanize others. Part of it would also involve group activities that benefit the community, so you might be able to get teens to volunteer at community centers. I can go into more detail if anyone’s interested.

That would take a while to implement, but once you get people in power who are empathetic, they’re more likely to support policies that will benefit others. For example, someone who is disabled or is related to a disabled person is much more likely to support policies that support disabled people. This is because they know the struggles that disabled people face with poorly or even maliciously implemented policies. The same is true with people who are aware of racial struggles with bad policies (and polices).

Alternatively, we can elect people who are aware of these issues to begin with. Provided they’re a good politician, anyway. Ben Carson is Black and he is apparently a skilled surgeon, but he’s also a terrible politician and has ties to shady companies. There is an overlap between people who understand the issues and who make good politicians; teaching empathy widens the overlap and makes it more likely that someone can be both. Or we can burn the system down and start a new one from scratch, but people tend to frown on that idea for some reason.

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Yeah the Biased book made a mention of that study among others which I read about. So how should I change the Original post or update it so its talking more about over-polcing then about gangs?

And I agree on what you put down elect people who knows what its like to walk in their shoes and don’t have connections with bad companies.

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I’d go a bit more general; how we can improve things for minority communities. Overpolicing and gangs are both issues with that, so the opening post shouldn’t need to be changed much. We could also discuss things like gentrification.

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I put down some examples of systemic racism and when I could I put down solutions.

Before I forgot… for some reason single mothers from racalized communities face tougher penalties from Children’s Aid Soceity then white mothers which basically cause them to be in something like a “Catch-22”- Bascially these mothers are told something like “keep a closer watch on their kids or else loose them” but in order to keep a roof over their heads, or food in their tummies- the mom might need to do 2-3 jobs which prevents them from keeping an eye on their children

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Positive representation in media is another possible solution. It benefits minority kids, who get to see people like them in wider society, and it helps majority kids with empathy since they can connect with characters. Plus, it gives jobs to minority actors.

As for the police issues: complete overhaul of the police and emergency response system. Not every problem is a police problem.

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Right, and two of the shows I watched growing up -Arthur and Wishbone both had racalized main characters have strong families. As did, I hear Will Smith’s character’s extend family on "Prince of Bel Air" So we need more strong families like that.

Part of the problem I see about the police coming to deal with people in mental crisis is that in Toronto at least-don’t know about elsewhere-that the mental crisis mobile unit only has basically “business hours” of 9-5" so that anything either after 5pm, or after Friday are send to the police.

@Celoptra - I’ve just started reading your first post on this thread, and I’m impressed by your thoughtfulness. It’s a tough subject, but that is why it deserves our attention! I can’t read the whole thing at the moment, but I’m looking forward to finishing it later on today and discussing it.

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Thanks! I put the ideas into catergoies because of what I have read. Either in one of three books (Biased book or two Canadian non-fiction books- Policing Black Lives by Robyn Maynard, and The Skin We’re In by Desmond Cole) or what I have read or seen in the news- TV or The Toronto Star

Actually both Robyn Maynard, and Desmond Cole wrote for Toronto Star. And Toronto Star did either an accident or on purpose bit of racism itself with Cole (I can’t remember the reason) and Robyn called them out on it- according to Cole in his book.

I forgot to mention in the post about law enforcment on public transit… since I do have a case about that if I can dig it up which I can probably can.

I’m continuging on from the list from the beginning =

8. Law Enforcement on Public transit
In the past (pre-Covid) there were Law Enforcement officers on the TTC. In two different cases that these law enforcment officers harrassed racaliazed men In both cases the racalized men involved were arrested for suppoedly “resiting arrest”. In the one case-the racalized man was choked by a law enforcment officer. The said (White) officer tried to claim during trial that the black man was being racist towards him and his colleague.

In the other case, the racalized man was tackled by TTC law enfforcement officers who were called Fare inspectors. And then dentained by police officers when they arrived. All that the guy was trying to do was leave the street car. The assumation is that the fare inspectors must have assumed he didn’t tap his card when he got on the street car. After this people tacked him to the hard Street Car platform- he was held in a simliar- but not indentical-manner to George Foyld in May 2020-untill the police arrived. But either during the tackle or being restrained-he got seriously injuries-to the point his mother had to take unpaid time off work to care for him. Now, the guy is so afraid of going on the TTC he rather take an expensive Uber or Lyft or a taxi, or ride his bike-the latter sometimes causes him pain-to work rather then take the TTC. During the trial the fare inspectors-tried to claim that the “guy starred at them for too long”

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@Celoptra - Sorry, finally had a chance to read what you wrote tonight.

Some general thoughts: I have read that the NGOs that do community support know that it takes at least one generation to make lasting, significant changes to communities. Certainly I have seen that in my own life. One example is attitudes towards LGBTQ+ people. In the 1970s and 1980s, it was shocking when celebrities started coming out, or were outed by others. More were outed during the AIDS crisis. The result of this increased visibility was increased awareness and tolerance, even in the face of openly anti-gay sentiment and outright brutality, to the point where gay marriage is recognized legally in Canada, the USA, and Australia (to give three random examples). Although pastors called gay behaviour sinful, many families choose to love their family members when they came out, despite the voices of hate and intolerance. There’s still a heck of a lot more to do (to put it mildly), but the progress that has happened in my lifetime is amazing.

The problem with racialization is that racialization sets people apart; they are strangers, “other”, weird and possibly dangerous. Strangeness is at the root of all prejudice and discrimination; we tend to fear and distrust what we don’t understand, and our culture has really emphasized the differences.

One strategy that works for teaching empathy is called motivational interviewing: talk to non-racialized people about times when they felt that they were treated unfairly. Dig deep enough, and just about everyone belongs to a minority that is misunderstood and perhaps even mistreated. Women know what it’s like to be ignored and minimized by men. Catholics are dismissed as belonging to a religion that is dominated by pedophiles. Many people live with chronic illness or have been disabled, even if only temporarily. Obese people get fat-shamed. Tall people and short people both have particular problems. Even left-handed people have legit complaints about living in a right-handed world.

This can be the basis of establishing empathy for people who are in other minority groups, including racialized minorities.

You can’t reach everyone, because some aren’t willing to engage, but over time, things can improve. Maybe the straight white guy that doesn’t want to listen today, will be more willing to listen after he has an in-law from a racialized group, or has had to use a knee walker for a few months.

Short term solutions? “Be the change you want to see in the world”, I guess.
Science says that the way to change the hearts and minds of the intolerant is to listen to them and engage with them, not to lecture to them. It works even for the most hateful beliefs.

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Sounds like a good time to bring up deep canvassing.

The biggest problem is that dealing with bigots is a lot of emotional work. It burns people out pretty quickly. It would be nice if there was a way to automate it, like setting up a site that can do most of the work. Of course, then you have the problem of how to get people to go through it. Maybe something that can prompt people on how to respond when they’re dealing with bigots?

ETA: I remembered seeing a conversation recently. Just tracked it down.

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Yes, I believe motivational interviewing is the technique that it evolved from. The point is that, although shouting down bigots feels like the right thing to do, it actually isn’t the most effective approach.

Something that I think often gets lost is that EVERYONE is following some sort of internal logic. That logic may be flawed, it may have bad inputs, or it may have made some bad assumptions but people behave and act for a reason.

You can understand that reason without agreeing with it. Imagine a calculator that doubles all the numbers you put in before doing the problem. So 2+3 = 10. Thats not correct I know thats not correct but I can recognize the pattern and understand that if I put in 4+6 its going to give me 20. Its reasons are wrong but can be understood. Its important to mention that explanation is not the same as justification. Someone can do a bad thing and have a reason for doing it, knowing what that reason is doesnt make the thing no longer bad.

In the context of this conversation my point is similar to yours that its easy and cathartic to shout at bigots and write them off as cartoon level evil. And no one who goes through oppression is obligated to not feel angry. But that bigot believes/acts that way for some flawed reason understanding what that reason is and addressing that is a more practically useful methodology.

Thats just really hard to do. Because people have a really hard time understanding a reason they dont agree with and thats been true forever. Aristotle said “It is the mark of a well educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it.”

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I know in the UK some time ago there was this video which had to do with disablity

A working man has to do something about a new disablity law in UK. He goes home and I think the implication was he drank too much booze-and then he had this werid “dream” and in the dream that the society in which the guy lived in had a disabled majority and a able bodied minoritiy.

He had trouble getting a hold of transporation to his interview, the only way to access the building was by a open lift or something, and the receponist didn’t give him the time of day after giving him some papers which I think were in braille despite him saying 'he couldn’t read it". When he got to the room where the interviewers were-they, gossiped among themselves about “He’s able bodied”.

And that night- he was going to be meeting someone at a resturant- and the host was like “Do you have a compianion?” and when not… the host took the man through the resturant and you can hear bits of the conversation like “I hope he’s seated at the back”, or “people like him shouldn’t be let out” . The date he’s meeting there after the supper, takes him out to a bar I believe and she says “It’s great you have people who take you out to.” and then the next question gets cut off but I think the implication is she asked if "people like him can have “bed love”. He then he has a false awkening in bed because the woman from the date is there but the computer or something in his room makes him wake up for real. He then at work the next day in reality says something like “We need to do whatever we can… for disabled”

I know this is nonesesical but I kind of wish this ^ video could be a series. I think the video on youtube was called “The Talk”.

Maybe something simliar could happen for racism or other groups.

This is the video I’m talking about:

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But with Racism there could be more then just a “day in the life”. Like in the fictional video based on the “Talk” talking about racism -one video would be simliar to the disabled one. But another video could be about trying to shop, or another one could be able schooling.

I know Dhar Man’s videos are fictional but I just remembered a video from his early days which there are two white women in a store not together- I think its suppsoe to be like Costco? A racalized man infront of them when they’re leaving is asked to be shown their recipt by the checkers. But when the woman go by -the checkers don’t ask for them. One of the women (Women 1) after they leave mentions about how the man got checked and they didn’t.

the other woman (women 2) points out about 2 boys in the parkling lot playing together-one is White boy the other is racalized boy. Woman 2 says both those boys are her sons -one is a stepson. She then tells the Woman 1 about how differently the boys get treated if they just go for a walk. Like if the white boy goes for a walk-the neighbours are friendly to him vs if the Racalized boy goes for a walk that women will clutch their purses and stuff. OR the differences between the two sons if they go into a store- the “white” boy doesn’t have to worried about “being treated like a threat” when the racalized boy does have to be worried about it.

The woman 1 says something “may if I saw it myself with my own eyes” and then a less then a second after she said it the Woman 2’s racalized son is being searched by a cop because of “Someone stealing money from a nearby store” despite both his step-mother, and his step-brother coming to his defense.

There are some other videos with the same racism lens.

In my Swanson SimLit alone- in Gen 2- in my one song chapter 2.14 (Gen 2, Chapter 14)… I imply scenes of 1- that is suppose to be Islamphobia-, and another scene which is very common for young racalized men of today-

A scene whcih is suppose to show Isalmpobia

Racism Scene

In Gen 4 in the teen years there’s a bit of Sexism and a bit of racism. Even if the tiny bit of sexism I did borrow from a Not Always Learing Story

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