If you're sick, should you work?

I was raised in a house where I was also allowed to miss school if I physically threw up (so kid me figured I could make myself thorw up so I wouldn’t have to go to school but that’s a completely different matter and one I don’t remember well) and I wasn’t allowed painkillers unless my headache had lasted several hours. So my pov of this is going to be slightly skewiff.

I still think the OP was an arsehole.

I have gone to work sick. I wore my mask the entire shift and used gloves and changed them as often as I would normally need to wash my hands and washed my hands regularly too. I probably should have taken more than one sick day. So it would be very hypocritical of me to say you should never work when sick. But I think that at least you shouldn’t work when very sick.

This would be the part where I point out that covid kills people and so should be taken a hell of a lot more seriously that some random cold, but that should be obvious to anyone with half a brain.

@Celoptra , you have mentioned before that you and your parents are high risk. How would you feel if you tested positive for covid tomorrow? How would you feel if you found out the only reason you, personally, were going to die was because one of the cashiers who checked out you and your dad was positive with covid? If they valued their job over your life?

I am quite frankly fed up with your complete and utter lack of empathy. I know I’m not the best at empathy myself, and I know it’s overwhelming to realise that every single person you have ever walked past, or has drove past your house, face you’ve noticed (and not noticed) in crowd is a living breathing person. People who probably ate breakfast this morning and have things they want to do with their lives and yet more people they know that they care about. But your failure to comprehend that does not change that all of those people exist.

Do you even have any idea how selfish it is to suggest that it’s okay for people to die just so one person gets to keep their job? Do you understand what it means for people to be dead and never coming back? Actual living people, where you can’t just reload a save to see them again?

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OP HAD A CHOICE TO NOT GO IN TO WORK! I don’t have any idea how much more plainly it can be stated that purposely going to work even though you will likely infect innocent bystanders with a potentially deadly illness is wrong!

My dad got COVID in mid-December 2020, just before the vaccine for high-risk people was available. He had just turned 85 years old and had Type 2 Diabetes and lung issues. Pre-COVID, he lived on his own and enjoyed visiting with his friends (my mom passed away in September 2017, so Dad was a widower), essentially living as good of a life that he could in the midst of his missing his wife of 56 years. People were usually surprised when he told them his age because he didn’t look 85; they would have guessed 10 years younger. Then he got COVID, likely from some fast food worker (because he didn’t cook and ate out often). He spent 8 days in the hospital with low oxygen levels, having to go on oxygen in the hopes he could eventually recover. After the hospital stay he was sent to a nursing home for rehab, with the plan to get him back into his apartment as soon as possible. That never happened. He left his apartment in an ambulance on December 16th and never got back to his apartment. He died in the nursing home on April 24, 2021. While COVID was not listed on his death certificate (it was cardiopulmonary collapse, diabetes, and COPD), I feel certain it was a factor. He could have ended up in the same predicament if it had been the flu or pneumonia, too. It really doesn’t matter, what matters is that he likely contracted it from someone who went into work sick and he caught it. And now he’s gone. And it really p*sses me off that people like the OP are so flippant about spreading their illnesses. I don’t care if your boss says come in, STAY AT HOME IF YOU ARE THAT SICK! Don’t deprive someone else of a loved one because you can’t stand up to an irrational boss.

I’m done trying to talk sense into someone who doesn’t give a carp.

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Something that I’d like to discuss: can the OP be brought up on charges for going in to work while knowing they were infected with a deadly disease and actually infecting others with that disease? If so, what would the charges be?

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I believe some places were charging people with bioterrorism for coughing/sneezing on others even if they weren’t knowingly sick.

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Not sure about charges, but in most states working with food while suffering from a fever is a health code violation. Meaning that, if they did the job they normally do (versus, say, cleaning the bathrooms instead) then they most likely did break the law, but they probably wouldn’t be the one suffering legal consequences from it. The business however could get into hot water, however.

And yes, one of the symptoms of bronchitis is fever, so even if they didn’t have Covid, they likely violated the law if they handled food.

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@RebeccaBlue My parents and I all wear masks when we go into the buildings. I can’t go to the mall to hang out with my friends because of the "Risk of getting Covid because I take my mask off. They that paranoid that Mom and I been eating in the Parlour Room at our church the lunches for the youth-that’s the only time we have our masks off since 8:30am when we get to the church. And we’re there from 8:30am to 1:55pm. (with a snack break around 10:30am-where I get a drink of juice but I either go into the Parlour Room or into the empty ladies’ Choir room just so I can take my mask off to drink). Heck I had to make two trips to the grocery store this week for Bible Camp and I wore my masks in both directions not to have to bother taking it off leaving the church just to put it back on again when I got to the store and vice versa walking from the store back to the church.

Is it just me, or did she not answer any of RebeccaBlue’s questions? I noticed that she did that in the original comments section, too (and got called out at least once). Is that a usual thing?

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Yep pretty much

We have a old story on the site where OP vomited and I think they worked in a cafeteria(can’t remember but they did work with food) and the place had a rule saying that if they vomited they can’t be at work for 48 hours. But Op’s boss tried to bully them to come back into food area sick. At least the boss got demoted and OP promoted

And there’s the story where OP had a case of influenza and despite several different emails OP’s boss thought that “it was just an head cold” and the boss tried to have OP come into work despite being ill or “Else they’ll be fired”

The pink-eye and the lunch Manager story

or how about this story OP was trying to inform her boss, the manager that they’re sick and yet OP’s boss didn’t show up until noon and still berated OP for Not telling him before 9 that they’re sick (and they gotten written up)

And I know this person works in a phone company but the boss fired OP for “having an accident” in their break room and then still tried to have OP back at their job and that the firing was a “misunderstanding”

or how about this one where OP’s boss tried to force OP to go into work?:

It’s not even a response. Her entire paragraph is pretty much her pointing out all the precautions she and her family have to take to avoid Covid, which is only related to RebeccaBlue’s question in the sense that they both mentioned her family.

It’s not unlike a politician talking circles around a question they don’t want to answer. Scratch that, it’s exactly like a politician talking in circles around a question they don’t want to answer.

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if I was a politication I would be fighting for a fair ODSP amount then what I Can get currently and making sure that clawbacks were tossed in the dustbin where they belong. And that ODSP marriage act gets into the line with Canada’s Family Act.

I looked up some possible charges for the OP. What I got was assault and battery, reckless endangerment, and, if people died, an argument could be made for all degrees of murder. Terrorism probably doesn’t apply in this specific case, since it refers more to the threat of spreading the disease than actually spreading it. Disclaimer that I am not a lawyer and therefore have no idea what I’m talking about.

Assault and/or Battery: While there is no distinction in some jurisdictions, assault is the threat of harm while battery is the actual harm. If you threaten to punch someone, that’s assault; if you actually punch someone, that’s battery. That being said, in some areas, both things are covered under assault. People have been charged with this for spreading HIV. In some cases, HIV-carriers have been charged with assault/battery with a deadly weapon, under the logic that infected fluids are deadly weapons. COVID, being both airborne and waterborne, could qualify as a deadly weapon under this logic.

Reckless Endangerment: Recklessness, in law, is when you know something can result in harm, but don’t care. So if I know that guns are lethal and I shoot one off, not intending to harm anyone, that is reckless. If the gunshot actually harms someone, then that would be reckless endangerment: knowingly taking an action which harms or kills someone, but without intention to harm someone.

Murder: This covers a very broad range, since the severity of murder depends on the intent behind it. Also doesn’t help that most states in the US have different definitions. But this is a broad description. First degree murder is when you plan to commit murder and actually commit it. Second degree is when you plan to commit severe harm on someone but not murder, and they die from the harm. Third degree is usually a catch-all for all other kinds of murder.

Manslaughter is when you kill someone, but there’s no intent. Voluntary manslaughter usually means someone was temporarily in a state of mind that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed, and involuntary means you committed a reckless or negligent act that resulted in someone’s death.

Assuming the police have access to the NAR story, they could make a case for first degree murder. OP knowingly went to their workplace with two highly infectious diseases, one of them potentially lethal, and described it as malicious compliance (e.g. they did it knowing that people could get hurt or die). However, it’s more likely that a second degree murder charge would stick. As for the manslaughters, being under the effects of two illnesses and having close family members get sick could result in a temporary disturbance in their mental/emotional capacity, which might qualify it for voluntary manslaughter. If they had no intent to harm their coworkers at all, maybe involuntary manslaughter. But I’d say that second degree murder is probably the most likely (maybe with a plea bargain down to manslaughter).

Again, not a lawyer. Anyone else have any thoughts on the matter?

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What’s your point? How does that refute anything I’ve said here? It’s still against the health code in most states to handle food while you have an infection. The fact that other violations of the health code exist on this site isn’t proof of the opposite. And the only story there that has anything to do with my comment on about it being against the health code to handle food while sick is the one about pink eye–which actually supports my point:

Morning Manager: “No. Don’t touch anything and get your things. I will clock you out myself. Go home, get some rest, and don’t you dare step back into this store until you have recovered. I will deal with [Lunch Manager].”

(When I eventually got back to work I was not in trouble. But as punishment for making me come in, the lunch manager was forced to clean and sanitize everything I had touched that morning. At least she never threatened to fire me for calling in sick again!)

The other two stories have nothing to do with what I said.

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I never said you were a politician. I said you were acting like a politician who is dodging questions they don’t want to answer.

Which you are.

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My only thought is OP is in a catch-22 - she could either come into work and potentially killed people. Or she could be fired for not showing up. It doesn’t matter what words she used -but they’re basically forced to come into work and that’s my last thought on the matter…

And about 69 not being 96 how about

@Carcharocles what about the first part of the story where the Lunch manger threaten to have OP fired? that’s what I been talking about. And the others are example of how *** stupid bosses can be and wouldn’t even care if their employees were six feet under and would still try to bully OP into coming into work

The first part of the story isn’t in dispute. OP could have been fired, no one is denying that. I’m not, and honestly, I’d prefer that option.

The point I’m making here is that handling food at work while sick is a health code violation. Arguing with me about her getting fired is irrelevant, but I’m not disputing that as a possibility.

Edit: and stop with the 69/96 BS. It’s off topic. If you want to discuss this, start a thread about it.

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Sorry if I misunderstood you about the food business.

The 69 thing is the clearest example of why people get frustrated. Cleo is incorrect, has gotten text explanations, gif explanations even a video exlanation. Its an “experiment” that takes 10 seconds to do yourself. But still she insists that she is right and everyone else is wrong and if she just repeats it enough reality will change.

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I know. But the problem is it’s off topic, and every time it comes up it derails this thread.

  1. That’s still not a 96.

  2. As long as you continue to say that it’s okay to kill people for your own personal benefit, people are going to continue to disagree with you because killing people is wrong. Especially if it’s for your own benefit.

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