AMIBU about wanting programs for traveling touring show?

Even if you weren’t being a Karen at the time, you’re kinda being one now in this thread by continually insisting they should have had paper copies.

Also, you being confused about what play you were watching wasn’t the fault of the theatre company.

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People explained this. Several, including me and Stephen, specifically said that ASKING is reasonable, and DEMANDING is not. If you decide to read into that, that we thing you were demanding, that’s on you.

Also several people explained that the way you present yourself in this thread (being a Karen) implies that you were a Karen about ‘asking’ and thus being unreasonable.

If you were politely asking, most here already agreed it was a reasonable request. However, the further this thread went, the more unreasonable you became HERE, thus making us believe you would’ve been unreasonable when asking.

If you want us to believe you were actually reasonable in all those requests you do, act reasonably in those request.

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If you need to know in advance which play you are watching to be able to follow the plot that is … well, that’s really a You problem.

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@Kenneth_Vendelboe How many times do I have to explain the fact that the Website, the annoucments before the show put an empaish on the second play (Henry V) and not on the fact it’s also Henry IV plays? That it’s only in the 2nd line of their website! It should be in the first line or even better the title should have been King Henry IV & V. Not just Henry V.

Why should I need to look up Henry IV beforehand when I’m only expecting the entire play to be Henry V?


" King Henry V

King Henry V celebrates Driftwood Theatre’s return to live performances after a three year hiatus. An Ambitious adaption of three Shakespeare plays (Henry IV Pts 1&2 , Henry V), . King Henry V is a powerful story about community, the families we inherit and those we choose and the legacies we leave behind.

Set against the backdrop of a contemporary patio bar and feature Driftwood’s Signature blend of music, puppetry, and Shakespare’s captivating poetry King Henry V rolls into outdoor community spaces across Ontario this summer"


How can I follow a plot of a play I never seen before (Henry IV) that I’m NOT expecting to be seeing at performance which called itself Henry V?

As I said before. Take this as a learning experience. Next time you are going to a play look at the website and read everything. Don’t be surprised that you aren’t getting a program. Don’t be upset if they give out treats that may or may not have a booklet in them that likely includes the nutritional information in it and that’s why it’s printed. They probably did it that way because people are seeing a play and they may have their cell phones off or not even with them so they don’t have to worry about possible triggers.

Also if you don’t want to get answers that you don’t like don’t ask this kind of question. Next time say something like:

I went to a play with mom today & I was disappointed as the subject line and then use the body of the post to say why you were disappointed. Because AIBU is like AITA on Reddit. If you had posted this here people would probably have voted YTA hands down. We’re much nicer on here than Reddit would have been.

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If someone in a NAR story didn’t read the sign/email/website because they assumed they knew what it said and then made a mistake based on their assumption, is that the fault of the customer or the company?

If you didn’t read the email/website because you assumed you knew what it said and then made a mistake based on your assumption, is that the fault of you or the company? They gave you multiple chances to read about the play and you didn’t.

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My mother is fond of the phrase.

"If you meet a jerk then you met a jerk and thats unfortunate.

If EVERYONE you meet is a jerk then you are the jerk"

Have you noticed how many threads on this forum are you endlessly arguing with everyone else? If you dont want to hear the consensus of the group thats fine but dont go on a public forum and ask the group if you are just going to argue the answer for days.

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There is no emphasys in King Henry V. There is emphasys on King Henry Five, which is not a play by Shakespear. This also has been explained many times already.

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Well said. :slight_smile:

Actually Henry V is a play by Shakespeare. The play which was performed in the 2nd act was Shakespeare’s Henry V. The problem is the production is calling itself (King) Henry V but the First Act was the other Shakespeare plays Henry IV part 1&2 and since I’m not a mind reader… how am I suppose to know there’s an entirely different play then what they’re calling themselves which is also (Henry IV part 1&2)? Why should it be my responsibility to look up their website to see “Henry V” to check to make sure it’s not a two-in-one show just so I can understand the First story? Maybe they should be billing the show correctly and calling it Henry IV and Henry V and not putting an empaish on only the Henry V?

You don’t have to be a mind reader. You just have to be a website reader and an email reader. If you didn’t read the website or the email because you thought you knew what was going on, why would you read the program?

Also, in those screenshots, why do you have two separate bookmarks with “Create Fake Facebook” in the titles? Are you making fake Facebook accounts?

The production was called king Henry five, not Henry V. They are different things, and as someone who apparently has seen Henry V several times, that should have been a clue. There is NOTHING wrong with their billing (apart from the fact that with this attitude, they can’t send you a big enough one).

Also, you are probably one of VERY few, that need to read up on an oncoming production to be able to follow it.

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How can I follow a plot of a play I never seen before (Henry IV) that I’m NOT expecting to be seeing at performance which called itself Henry V?

Are you for real right now? You do that by listening to the words the actors say and looking at the actions the actors perform. You know, like how you follow everything in life.

If your question is serious and you really are not able to follow the plot of something the first time you experience it that explains a lot about the discussions on this site.

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You don’t have to be a mind reader. You just have to be a website reader and an email reader. If you didn’t read the website or the email because you thought you knew what was going on, why would you read the program?

So I know whom the actors are and what roles they’re playing? Also to know how long the play is (2 hours and 20mins). And how am I suppose to have access to Mom’s email when she’s the one whom is subscribed to the company and not me? And she only told me originally that the show was calling itself Henry V. She didn’t know until she was checking the time the night before it was Henry IV as well. And I have read programs since my first play when I was was 10 years old.

But at least most plays’ billings/website, etc don’t tell half a story which is basically what this company billing did in a way. Like if they say its Henry V it’s ONLY going to be Henry V and not an additional two plays as well (Henry IV pt 1&2)

1)its actually was three. 2) Not actually accounts but posts 3)SimLit story. characters have made up lies about another character in my story on FB.

I can watch and listen to the actors as much as possible but when I’m expecting Henry V to any moment decide to invade France because the production called itself HENRY V not Henry IV and V which it should have. I read Henry IV in a children’s book a long time ago.

The fact its called itself King in front of the word and number Henry V doesn’t really mean anything. It’s still in my mind billing/calling itself only Shakespeare’s Henry V so I was expecting the entirely of the play to be Henry V only and not the Henry IV plays.

So is it any wonder why I was confused on the fact that for awhile in First Act 1)Henry V isn’t Henry V yet but the Crown Prince , his one friend, Falstaff, calls him, Hal-which was my major clue about the play was also being Henry IV and only after that point could I enjoy and follow the rest of the plot of the First Act of the play?

It’s billing itself as One play (Henry V) but it’s also three plays in one. Instead of it being called Henry V it should be called Henry IV and Henry V. or at least call the shows called the show Kings Henry IV&V

And I’m not 100% sure but I think a lot of other people at the show were confused about the First Act being two other plays (Henry IV pts 1&2) and not what its called itself (Henry V) because a lot of people left at intermission and missed the actually Henry V play which was the play’s 2nd Act.

okay lets us all imagine a different scenario (I know its not the same thing but lets just pretend) let’s say you went to see ONE movie at a theatre since that’s ALL it was billing itself as. But the first hour of the movie was a completely different movie. You already knew the plot of the 2nd movie (which is all the movie is billing itself as) and you couldn’t figure out until like 20mins into the the First movie it’s another movie as well as the movie you came to see. Would you look up the plot of the movie you weren’t expecting to see if the movie is only billing itself as the other movie?

I know I wouldn’t lookup a movie I’m not expecting to see if the movie was only billing itself as only the other movie. Would you?

Heck another production of I believe Driftwood (or its predecessor) was a lot more honest then this play was- of it being more then one play or bits of different Shakespeare plays. But I can’t remember what that play was called “The complete works of the Bard” or something?

This is going to be probably my last reply to you on this topic because it feels as if what I’m saying is going in one ear and out the other.

I’m going to tell you a story. A few weeks ago I made a favorite dinner for my husband and his mother. Everything was ready except for the corn on the cob which we eat after the main meal. She got upset because the corn on the cob wasn’t ready when she came home and it ruined the whole meal. She went back to her room and slammed the door. Yes it was a favorite meal but the good in the meal was overshadowed by her attitude.

Now let’s look at your situation. The play you got to see was like the meal in my story. The fact you didn’t have a program is like the corn on the cob that wasn’t ready. Both my mother in law and you reacted to something that was so small and insignificant in the grand scheme of things and that caused you to not enjoy the good things that happened. For her it was the meal. For you it was a play.

The thing is that my mils attitude is what makes me not want to cook. And your attitude with the play and your reactions to what people have said in this thread are going to make them not want to reply to you. And if you complain about this to your parents, chances are that they are going to think twice about letting you do things like going to the mall with friends or even taking you someplace special.

There have been stories on NAR where the person is always complaining about something and it’s mentioned that they don’t take them places anymore. If you aren’t careful that is what will happen to you.

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So your mom found out about it beforehand by actually doing some reading?

Yes. I actually have done that when looking at adaptations of movies based on other stories I’d seen before (like adaptations of Marvel movies from the comics storylines; I definitely looked up Civil War before watching, because the plotline in the comics was a dumpster fire). Or when they’re reboots of movies I’ve seen before.

And that’s especially true for plays, given the wide variety of interpretations that different directors can bring to the table. I mean, even with movies, look at the differences between The Mummy in 1932, 1999, and 2017 (the last of which actually did incorporate other movies into it). And with plays, every single performance can be different if one actor swaps out for another or has had a different idea on how to interpret the character since the last performance. And that’s even without the plays undergoing a complete rewrite, which does sometimes happen. So yes, I would want to look up all available information on what’s going on in the play even if I’d seen a different adaptation of it before. Especially if I only had to read a few paragraphs in order to figure it out. Which your mom was apparently capable of doing.

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I’ve been lurking on this thread for a bit… thing is I have studied theatre, worked in theatre and have done numerous self-produced performances. There’s a few things I could add.

Without knowing the specific budgets of the company involved, here are some things about printing programs:

  1. Printing and marketing is one of the biggest costs you can face. Costumes, makeup, sets (ignoring the fact that this is outdoors), and so on are minimal costs. You can literally go to your local thrift store and get most of what you need. Only big companies with big budgets really care about having historically accurate costumes or fancy lighting or whatever. Assuming they don’t pay their cast or crew (because small professional companies often don’t, at least here, because there’s no money left to do so. They might take profits, but not actual wages) So marketing is basically your main expense, along with insurance.
  2. Buying ads, making flyers, getting the word out is necessary. Programs are not. Most people toss the programs, and at an outdoor space that means mostly litter.Most people don’t know or care about who is who in a small company; you might keep your program from Broadway, but you won’t remember a small troupe’s repetition of the 50 billionth performance of Shakespeare. You will trash your program and you will not remember the cast.
  3. I have maybe a handful of programs from the hundreds of shows I’ve seen of worked on. I kept ones I was particularly proud to be involved with, or big well known ones where I saw celebs. And that’s me, a person vested in the entertainment world. A collector of programs will again only care about big important productions, so even if you
    like to collect them you will most likely not keep every single one you ever had.
  4. Printing is expensive. We often had trouble finding companies who would do small runs. We often ended up printing programs separately on our home printers - but ink is expensive too. You may have 500 programs to print out, and maybe 10 of those won’t end up in the trash.
  5. That was all before hosting programs online. I do think it’s both cost effective and smart to put them online - though I would have simply added it to the website rather than use a QR code. People aren’t that tech savvy.

Now we come to the ‘snack booklet’.

  1. As others have said, you didn’t see what it was clearly so you CAN NOT assume it is a program.
  2. We would often go directly to local companies to get sponsorship. Performances make negative money - that is, they are constantly having to get sponsors because they don’t actually make a profit. These sponsors often included companies that offered food.
  3. We would do this kind of deal: you give us food of drinks to sell in our lobby beforehand, and we give you… FREE ADVERTISING.
  4. From my point of view, there is a more than reasonable likelihood that the snacks sold included a performance-branded piece of paper (booklet/whatever) that also had information about the food and the company who provided it.
  5. I have worked large-scale big productions with companies that had similar deals with food and drink companies, where there was copious amounts of branding from the companies that offered said food or drinks.
  6. Even ignoring that option, programs these days are BOUGHT not given away for free. Broadway companies do this all the time.
  7. That’s because they make money, mot from the tickets, but from merchandise. (Like movies and their concession stands) It’s very likely that the snack price came with a paper item that wasn’t going to be given away for free. (Like for instance, I bought a fancy program at a show once and it had a fun toy-thing that came with it)
  8. Even ignoring either of those options…

“So I know whom the actors are and what roles they’re playing?”

If this is the crux… why?
As an audience member, do you know the cast? Do you want to remember who they are ten years from now? Does knowing whose face is matched with what character help your understanding of the play? Will you care after you watch the play?

The problem here is that most people turn up to a performance much like they go to the movies. To be entertained. They are not there to remember the show, in fact most people prefer to have a laugh and go home and not discuss it ever again. It’s no more than a nice night out.

Now, as someone who loves theatre, who knows a lot about it, who enjoys discussing the sets and costumes and plots… some of us aren’t like that. And you have every right to want to get to know who are the good actors in your area and understand the plays (you can actually buy scripts to read you know! Go buy a set of Shakespeare’s plays for goodness sakes, they are the MOST easily available plays on the planet!)

But sadly you and I are in the minority. And if it’s a choice between informing one audience member with a paper item that contributes to litter and raises costs considerably that most everyone else won’t care about, versus leaving the program on the internet for most people to read and leaving one person confused…

Well I’m sorry but if I was in charge - and I often was the person ordering and paying for printing materials - I’d choose their option over yours.

This is one of those things where I feel like you may like going to plays, but you have no idea of how plays are produced or the kinds of decisions that are made when you are trying to offer a product that most people won’t pay for.

You know those “Clients from hell” stories where the client never wants to pay but expects amazing quality? That’s theatre. And unless you are willing to pay $500 per ticket per play to actually ensure cast and crew get wages AND the show gets produced… you are asking for too much.

The snack booklet is a distraction. They likely budgeted in for the booklet because they included it in the price of the SNACK. You didn’t buy a snack, so you don’t know what the booklet is.

As for the rest: Shakespeare is the best known playwright in the world. If you don’t know what you’re going to go see and it bothers you that you don’t know what the play is before you see it, then I suggest you don’t know enough theatre in general and you should learn more about it. Plenty of reviews, plot summaries, scripts can be found online. 9/10 people go to see well-known plays so if you’re that desperate you can buy or borrow a copy of the script.

Or you can do what everyone else does. Go, watch and listen, and experience the story as it unfolds before you.

Here’s a thing I liked to tell my actors: there’s no such thing as a perfect show. No matter how much you rehearse, something goes wrong.
In other words, learn to focus on the overall experience, because focussing on the things that go wrong will spoil the rest.

On a more personal note: There’s more to Shakespeare in theatre, everything from Japanese kabuki to Australian dreamtime storytelling. No two Shakespeare performances will be alike (especially as they are so done to death directors need to find new ways to make them inviting to audiences). It always bothers me when people think the entirety of theatre is Shakespeare. It’s not and if you go to every play wanting to know the plot beforehand then you’re either only seeing popular shows or caring only when you already know part of the plot.

Performers are there to tell you a story and give you an experience: if you want the story before the show then you kind of miss the point of going.

From my point of view, professionally speaking, we offer marketing information that teases the show without giving it away. We want people to come to the show, not feel as though they’ve seen it already by reading the marketing blurb. We also make reasonable decisions based on budgeting, and most theatre people I’ve met tend to be very environmentally conscious. In both cases, I think you are the rare outlier, and sadly people are not going to cater specifically to you when there are cheaper, easier, options that better suit the company’s needs AND their audience’s.

… So knowing that you’ve said that you’ve been going since you were 10… why do you go? What do you hope to get out of it? Do you collect your programs or trash them afterwards? Do you research every play you’ve ever been to, or simply turn up and watch?

There’s no reason you can’t be annoyed. I used to collect programs too and then realised I didn’t care or want them. And they went into the recycling. Most programs now cost money to get at a show. And yes, I get confused with all the Henries too, even if I like learning history. The problem here is that none of that is easily fixable from the company’s point of view.

You may wish to try doing some local amateur theatre. An insider’s perspective might help you see how it all works in reality.

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Honestly, I would have assumed I’m in the wrong screen and left to go figure out what’s going on.

If I knew the plot of the second movie and the first movie was completely different, I would have figured out they’re not the same movie sooner than a third of the way through. Only exception maybe if I saw the second movie a long time ago and barely remembered most of the plot.

I would not have looked up the plot to the first movie, nor would I have wanted to. I’m rather sensitive to spoilers, so looking up everything that happens is not fun until after I’ve seen the movie at least once.

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Thank you for posting this. :slight_smile: