Accessbility Stall story debate

I think the only two people in the wrong in today’s story is the disabled woman and OP’s teammate.

The stall is a PRIORTY to disabled people but it’s NOT something like Disabled parking spot.

I thought the message commenters have left in other stories about using the accessbility stall- is that as long as there’s not a disabled person in the washroom or if there’s a line-up, and a disabled person comes in and you’re next in line and the stall which oppens up is the accessbilty stall-you’re suppose to give it to the disabled person.

The way some of you are acting are acting like the DW was already was in the bathroom when OP came in and OP stormed ahead of her to use the Accessbile Stall and we do know that’s not the case. OP was there first.

I haven’t ice skated yet-I do want to learn. But aren’t you really wobbly if you haven’t been on skates for awhile?

Sure OP could time manage beeter but we don’t have all the information- like what does she have to do before going to the ice rink? Like if its store errands does the stores close riddclously earlier like 4-5pm and OP is at the ice rink at 4-5pm? So can only get to the store between 2-3pm after school? And if it is store errands, why can’t she go to the bathroom at one of the stores (if its store errands).

Only three reasons I can think of for “not” using a washroom in a store (IF its store errands she’s on)

1.)bathrooms out of order
2)employee only bathrooms
3)long line up for women’s bathroom

Or if OP has to pick up her gear at home, why couldn’t she go to the bathroom at home?

If OP tried to use the narrow space of a normal stall when her skates are on there’s are two nearly idnetical scenarios which could happen:

1)Op is using a normal stall and when standing up because she’s unsteady on her skates, she falls down, and hits her head on the toiliet cutting her head open needing her to go to the hosptial to get stiches

  1. Op is using a normal stall and when standing up because she’s unsteady on her skates, she falls down, and hits her head on the toiliet giving her a concussion- which symptoms might not appear for hours but eventually she would have to go to the hospital.

In both of the above scenarios - when fall dowing her blades would be getting damaged by the door, or the toiliet, paper holder, or the what do you call it to dispose of “Femine products”? depending on when the ice rink was built.

Yeah OP could do a 3) and put on ice skates after going to the bathroom. But I think Op is already running late to the ice rink due to the other places and they only have maybe an hour at the most on the ice- and her having to put skates on after going to the bathroom would make her team even later for ice warm-ups. And I never been part of a team outside of a Soccer-Baseball (Ie: Kickball) for gym class back in Elementary school-, but I don’t think team mates or coaches would be too happy when a teammate delays their pratice time on the sports field (including ice rinks) and that would include lacing up skates.

There’s is the other the possbility-but probably unlikely, that OP is in the team change room using one of those stalls and the DW barged into a change room washroom instead of going to a public washroom.

If we’re going to critize OP for using the accesbility stall when she doesn’t need it. Shouldnn’t we also be critizing:

Moms for using it because of the change table? Or its the only one which can fit more then 1 small kid in- change table or not.

People with wheeled suitcases?

people with bundle buggys? (granted this was one I was a part of-but I couldn’t leave the bundle buggy with Dad when I went to a washroom when at theme park because I was worried he would damnage the wheels with his way of “driving” it)

People changing clothes in a accessbility stall? (That happened once in Toronto’s airport when my parents and I came home from a trip- and there was a huge line up for the women’s washroom)

I really hate to use this word, but I’m going to say it -if someone has broken leg and needs a crutch/wheelchair, they’re sometimes considered “temporary disabled”… so how can OP not be viewed in a simliar way when she’s using the bathroom on skates? Sure its for a shorter time period then a broken leg. But it still would count in my opinon as temporary disablity

I think OP should try to strenght their ankles somehow because that might help them become less wobbly when walking on skates

The only other time I have seen people belitting OP about using the accessbility stall is the Poylesian centre story. When the belitting there was “people have invisbility disablities”… because the OP of that story was mad that a normal-looking woman used the accessble stall when OP who was in a wheelchair (or I think, was in a wheelchair), was also deperstatly in need of the same stall

It sounds like you’re upset because you’ve done this before and it’s now being described as ableist. Especially since you’re usually the first one to stick up for disabled people, and now you’re sticking up for an able-bodied person at the expense of a disabled person.

Using the disabled stall when there are no other options - and nobody else in line says they need it - is perfectly fine. If it has something that you need, like the baby changing station (and that’s really an inconvenient place to put it) then that is also acceptable. Using it when there are other options is not. Deliberately inconveniencing yourself so that you have to use it - as the OP is, because they can put the skates on afterward - is not acceptable. Your situation and the OP’s are not the same.

As you pointed out, wearing skates in the bathroom is hazardous. Even with the handrails, it’s still a risk; the moment you try to go to the sinks, where there is no handrail, you could smack into the wall or slip and hit your head on the sink. So then it’s ridiculous and dangerous for OP to wear them in there. It’s not a defense that OP is doing something dangerous and needs to be protected from their own terrible decisions.

And no, a deliberate inconvenience does not count as a temporary disability. By that logic, someone can be considered temporarily disabled if they put on a blindfold which they can also take off. If they do so, then should they be allowed to park in a disability spot? No. Not only because the blindfold can be removed (or not put on in the first place), but also because driving a car while blindfolded is hazardous to yourself and others. (Even more so than driving a car while blind, in many cases) And wearing skates off the ice can also be hazardous to yourself and others.

Also, as someone who has actually skated, someone who practices every week will usually not be wobbly. It’s still very dangerous to wear ice skates around. There’s a reason the metal things on the bottom of ice skates are called blades; they can be sharp. Some ice skaters and hockey players have had their throats cut from ice skates, with varying degrees of survival. Even if they’re blunt, slipping would still bang a metal rod into someone’s leg with a great deal of force. On the ice, it would push someone away due to the lack of friction. In a bathroom stall which has more friction, at the very least it would bruise and might break someone’s shin. Putting yourself in a situation where you could potentially slip and hurt someone else with your skates is a very bad move.

And as someone who has been on sports teams before, it’s pretty common for kids to show up late. Everyone knows it’s unavoidable sometimes. OP might miss some warm-ups, but warm-ups often go on for a while (10-30 minutes) so they wouldn’t miss much. And kids who come in after the warm-ups are usually fine.

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But didn’t we talk about on other stories about the use of the accessbility stall is a priorty not a right? And as long as there’s no one who obviously need it (wheelchair or like the Polysian centre story- Invisbility disablity)- its avaible for ANYONE to use?

The way some people are acting its like they think DW was in the washroom first and OP on skates came into the washroom and barged infront of DW to use the accessbile stall. Or there was a line up and OP was next in line and DW after her and the next stall to open up was the Acessbile stall and OP took it instead of offering it to DW. We both know that’s not true.

Well depending on the kind of sink-some sinks might be more helpful with some balance then others. Like the sinks with taps, vs… sinks which don’t have taps-but I don’t have names for them (Apperently they’re called trough sinks).

Theme park reason:

At the theme park I mentioned-and I have mentioned this theme park before (GO train and accidently running over someone’s toes story )-I would normally go in a normal stall in the washroom but this day was an unsual circumstances because 1)I was with my Dad and NOT my Mom who would normally take me and 2)I was responsible for the bundle buggy during that day in Toronto.

When Dad and I left from home that morning- when Dad (whose is tall like a basketball player)-tried to ‘drive’ the bundle buggy- he was “popping a wheelies” with the bundle buggy and I was concerned about the back wheels being damaged because of that-so I took over “driving” the cart the rest of the day.

At some point in the afternoon- I had to go to washroom and Dad wanted to go to the washroom as well-so I had to take the bundle buggy inside the washroom and since I didn’t want anyone to steal it- like I wouldn’t want anyone to steal a stroller (kid or not inside)-if I left it outside a normal stall (there has been instances I heard of Mom of bundle buggy almost being taken by others at the grocery store)… I had no choice but to bring it into the accessbile stall.

When I went INTO the stall-there was no one who obviously needed it and there wasn’t anyone when I came out either who needed it . Since I couldn’t leave it outside the stall on the off chance of someone stealing it, and I couldn’t leave it with Dad because he too was going to the washroom, and even if he wasn’t he could damnage the back wheels with his “driving”.

If there had been someone who needed to use that stall after I came out… I would try to appoligize to them for making them wait.

So what was I suppose to do with the bundle buggy if I didn’t want it to be stolen, and I couldn’t leave it with Dad?

Airport washroom “accessble stall as changing clothes room”

And the changing clothes in accessbility stall wasn’t me. The parents and I were coming home (it was either Ireland, or Germany)- i was getting despite to pee, and after getting off the plane Mom and I went to the bathroom-but the first woman’s bathroom we entered there was something like 8 women in line and I can’t remember how many stalls 3 stalls maybe and 1 accessbility stall and the latter was already in use. I don’t know how long we waited- but after awhile someone came out of the stall and it looked like that person had changed from the clothing she wore on the plane to a different outfit.

Due to a talk I think it was pre-Christmas with my Dad- I’m well aware of how sharp skates are since my one late blood Paterneal uncle on my Dad’s side got his cheek cut by a skate blade as a teenager. a Young Dad and Grandpa were there when Uncle had the accident.

Sure, anyone can use them. But if you have a choice between a disability stall and a non-disability stall, and you are capable of using the non-disability stall, then it’s better to do so. Especially since, unlike a priority seat on a bus or train, you can’t stop in the middle and move to another “seat” in the bathroom.

It doesn’t really matter if the disabled woman was in the bathroom to begin with. You don’t know if someone needs it. Especially since some disabled people have issues with telling when they need to use the bathroom; decreased sensation, muscle degradation that makes holding it difficult/impossible, and so on. It may also be more difficult for them to get to the bathroom (chairs and scooters can be pretty bulky and scooters seem to be stuck at walking speed), and if they have no use of their legs, they need more time to position themselves. All that taken into account, there may be a much smaller window of time for them to get there than with an able-bodied person. So, if it’s possible for you to use a non-disabled stall and a bunch of other people aren’t suffering from a bathroom line, it’s better for the stall to be available for someone to use it in an emergency. (Though people still shouldn’t be harassed for using it, in case of invisible disabilities.)

Though personally, I think they should just make all bathrooms completely disability-friendly. And genderless. Single-person, if need be.

I’ve managed to use a non-disability stall with both a full backpack and a medium-sized piece of rolling luggage at the same time. ETA: come to think of it, I’ve had both the medium and small luggages, plus the backpack, in a non-disability stall at the same time, during that time when my dad left me at the wrong airport. Assuming your bundle buggies aren’t much bigger than a personal cart, it seems doable to bring it in.

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I been in a lot of bathroom stalls in my 32 years of life. And in the last 10 years or so some of the bathroom stalls are so tiny in the women’s washroom -I can barley even fit in there with a backpack on if we don’t have the bundle buggy. . I can’t even get it back on me afterwards if I’m still in the stall that I litereally have to wear it tempory on one shoulder so I can get out of the stall and wash my hands. If I can barley have room to take off the backpack in the stall space… a bundle buggy (or ‘personal cart’) isn’t going to fit at all into the narrow space of a such a stall. I think the version my family has might be “extra large”

because of what we put into it-mostly groceries and library books . But if Mom and I do a Toronto day-like pre and Post-Christmas we also buy a LOT of books at a use booked store. So its not very likely a large shopping cart could fit into a normal narrow stall space. A small or medium bundle buggy weren’t do us much good for the amount of stuff we get either at the grocery store and libary, or at the bookstores.

To be fair in the very distant past I was one of those people with bathroom issues where I would have times when I would need to go to the bathroom ASAP despite being older then 5 years old. it was SO bad one time we had to miss about 5-10mins of the Peter Pan play the now offically retired producer had put on that year (Nov 2000).

But we can’t tell if someone needs the accessbiility stall just by looking at them? Like if OP wasn’t wearing skates but had invisbilitiy disablity that’s okay then?

If OP had an invisible disability that affected their ability to use the restroom, then yes, they could use the disabled stall regardless of whether they were wearing skates. But according to their narrative, they did not.

So because of that, Disabled Woman is still a jerk for yelling at OP (she had no way of knowing that OP did not have an invisible disability), but we can still say OP is a jerk because we know OP did not.

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I have a story which doesn’t have to do with an accessbile stall. But it does have to do with stalls. But I was basically a jerk in the story. It was at my elementary school washroom- there were no accessbility stalls in that washrom-there were two accessbility washrooms else near the school library.

I don’t remember how many stalls there were in the washroom- The majoirty of them were on the North Side of the washroom -the one stall closest to the main door washroom was a tricker buggy. On one occasionally I cut my finger on the bolt of the door, and another time, I got trapped in that stall and I had to crawl out of the stall. But that’s not the stories I’m talking about today.

The other two stalls were on the south side of the washroom and they’re underneath the only window in that bathroom. I don’t know why but I prefered using one of those two stalls compared to the other stalls and a couple of times in my later years at the school- that two young girls of racalized minorty also apperently liked the same stall.

There’s were occasionalls where I kind of frightened those girls a bit because one or the other were using one of the stalls where I wanted to use. I don’t remember what I said… I do remember I kind of banged on the stall in one scenario

I not sure if the 2 stalls I liked had a turning lock as oppose to the “lift and pull” lock (aka a bolt) the others (like the one I cut my finger on/got stuck in?)

I still think if we’re going to critize OP for using the accessbility washroom we should critize anyone who " don’t need it" … moms with young children, people with wheels who aren’t in wheelchairs or scooters- so people (including myself) with either a bundle buggy or a wheeled suitcase.

it’s not fair to only critize Op for taking a stall for disabled people and not critize these other people including myself for taking up a stall for disabled people for at least one of the two reasons OP said (more room).

You’re still not getting it.

People may need the extra room in the accessible stall for all sorts of reasons other than disability. That’s fine.

But the OP in the story only ‘needed’ the accessible stall because they had made a stupid decision.

They had a choice between:

  1. A then B: move normally, able to use non-accessible stalls
  2. B then A: unstable, potentially dangerous, potentially damaging to skates, probably later onto ice

And they chose 2.

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We are critising OP for using the stall when they can just as easily use a normal one and then put on their skates.
There is a world of difference between ‘I can’t leave my belongings out in the open but they don’t fit in the normal stall’ and ‘I am too stupid to understand that putting on my skates before going to the bathroom is pointless and using the accessible stall “because I have to” is a crappy excuse’

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There is also a world of difference between:

A) I put on my skates, but now I have really got to go! (Especially if it happens during the practice.)
— Okay, please be careful!

B) I put on my skates but I forgot that I really ought to make sure to use the bathroom before I put my skates on. There is no time to take off my skates, use the bathroom, and put my skates back on, so I guess I will have to take my chances this time and go to the bathroom with my skates on.
— Well, just this once, but you need to avoid this. Think ahead next time.

C) I will plan to put on my skates before using the bathroom, every time I skate.
—Now you are making a habit of a dangerous, inconsiderate, and unnecessary practice.

I suspect OP was in situation B once, decided it wasn’t that bad, and started making it a habit. So they drifted into doing C.

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Another thing that I saw come up in the comments on this story is length of time it takes to put on the skates and use the bathroom.

Let’s crunch some hypothetical numbers in order of operation

  • putting on and Lacing up skates - 3 minutes.

  • Walking to the bathroom - 3 minutes

  • Using bathroom - 7 minutes

Total of 13 minutes taken because it’s a lot harder to walk on skates.

Now let’s reverse those numbers.

  • Walking to bathroom 2 minutes

  • using bathroom 5 minutes

  • putting on and lacing up skates - 3 minutes

Even in this hypothetical scenario you shave off 3 minutes.

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At this point this seems like it could go in circles and if everyone is just getting frustrated, this thread may not be constructive.

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it just if we’re going to get frusated at OP for doing it. Shouldn’t we be getting mad at everyone who “doesn’t really need it” like maybe we should just leave our belongs (bundle buggy/wheeled suitcases) /kids to get stolen/kidnapped by strangers? (Not that I believe that last bit-since a kid is more liekly to get kidnapped by relatives/family friends)

It’s just if we’re going to get frustated at OP for wasting time using the accessbile stall- we should be getting mad at everyone who doesn’t really need it. Not just getting mad at OP…

if it’s okay for everyone else who “doesn’t really need it” to use it… it’s okay for OP to use it.

Sure she can manage her time better-and maybe save her errands for after the rink instead of before, and go to the bathroom first thing. or maybe go to the bathroom before leaving presumbly school?

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I don’t trust wikipeida since anyone can edit that

https://effectiviology.com/false-equivalence/

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is my false eviquence simliar to the believe that Police (or occasionally store employees/managers) is 1 racalized miority is a criminal=all racalized minorites must be criminals?

because that is what you seem to be implying…

It just if it’s okay for everyone else who “doesn’t really need it” to use the accessble stall-ESPICALLY if no one is there-because no one was there who needed it when OP went into it- OP should be able to use it as well.

sure it’s stupid Op putting on the ice skates before going to the bathroom but maybe like @LeadingZero said she forgot to go once before putting on skates and was already on ice before she needed to pee, and had to walk there in the skates and thought because once was okay she should do it again

it’s either we let everyone who “doesn’t really need it” use the acessble stall (as long as no one obviously needs it) or we should get mad (like DW Op from the Poylesian centre story) for everyone “who doesn’t really need it” like OP.

we can’t have it both ways. IF it’s not okay for OP to do it, it shouldn’t be okay for anyone else to “inconvenience” a disabled person (wheelchair, scooter service dog) who might show up in the washroom.

Ironically, that statement comparing your false equivalence over people using the accessibility stall to racial stereotyping is an excellent example of false equivalence.

Okay, if you insist. OP is not allowed to use the accessibility stall, and therefore nobody else is. You are forever barred from it, unless you acquire a disability. So is everyone else, because they are exactly like OP.

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